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  (#31) Old
south bender south bender is offline
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One More Point - 03-01-2012, 02:54 PM

In watching Monty, I am impressed with how super-competitive he is. And I can see why he loves Jorge so, because Jorge is a lot like him, where he would rather do it than talk about it.

I think that competitiveness rubs off on his teams and that is a major reason why they play better than you would think they would, when you look at the talent of the individual components. Of course, he is great at the teaching and the overall orchestration, but I think that his intense competitiveness adds to all his other excellent qualilties and underlies his success.

And, of course, he does it in a way that is a credit to Cal, not an embarrassment.
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OaktownBear OaktownBear is offline
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03-01-2012, 03:02 PM

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Originally Posted by 82gradDLSdad View Post
but I don't understand why Montgomery isn't a better recruiter. He just finished up an interview on the Radnich show and he is a very glib, personable guy, willing to talk openly about his shortcomings and strengths. Maybe it was his admission to not being up to speed on the twitter/facebook/IM sort of stuff that hints at his less than stellar recruiting efforts. Anyway, he seems like a good guy and he is very interesting to listen to. He obviously is a great representative of the university.

Consider a couple things about Monty, recruiting and program building. As someone else mentioned, Monty inherited a serious class balance issue. That provided an initial opportunity for some early success – check, Pac-10 championship – but it was an obstacle for Monty to start building his program. Monty was never going to be the guy that was going to walk in and grab a bunch of elite players and vault to the top 10. It was always going to be a program build. It’s how he works.

Where are we at right now? I don’t think we are stacked, but I think we are in nice shape for the future. We have the base to take a step up. We still need to capitalize – guys we have/are getting need to pan out and we need to get a couple recruiting wins. But the opportunity is there.

The future core team is made up of:

Cobbs – I’m convinced this guy is a total stud at this point – 2 more years on the team
Crabbe – Very good player – 2 more years on the team
Solomon – good player – 2 more years on the team
Kravish – good player – 3 more years on the team

I think there is a very good chance that all 4 of these guys are very good to studs by 2013. The problem, quite frankly, is the junior class just doesn’t contribute much except some bench minutes, and it will never do more than that.

When you look at results, though, Monty’s first full recruiting season has yielded a hell of a class, especially since the Cobbs transfer was basically part of that class as well. We've got a nice start to the second class with Kravish, and need to see what Behrens and Kreklow yield.

But, as I said, there is opportunity. Not a lot of margin for error, but opportunity. You have to guess (and hope) that the starting lineup in 2 years (if not next year) is completed by Wallace – a very good prospect, or Kreklow. We really need those guys to pan out.

I really feel confident that this is a top 15 type starting lineup in 2 years even without considering who we might add next recruiting cycle. Basically what we need to do is get one more backcourt starter out of Wallace and Kreklow, and develop a 3 man bench out of Murray, Behrens, Rossi, Kaileb, the Wallace/Kreklow non-starter, and the 3 man recruiting class for next year. I don’t think that is a bad position to be in personnel-wise 2 years out.
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  (#33) Old
BearsLair72 BearsLair72 is offline
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I happen to know this Stanford kid.... - 03-01-2012, 03:05 PM

...who was there in the salad days of Monty and he would say that the real knock on Monty is that he is NOT a good tournament coach and given some of his talent and the times he got pretty far and never won it, one might question that view also.

But in my fuzzy head, even though I'll bet we get a low seed and are gone from some tourney arean 3000 miles away, it is still a whole lot of fun watching his teams. I mean, who among you basketball studs HASN'T enjoyed this year? If our football team was fighting for 1st place in the Pac-12 North try to imagine how THAT would make you feel...so I say, go Monty go!!!



PS: Could it be better...of course, but this is a fun ride.
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  (#34) Old
UrsaMajor UrsaMajor is offline
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03-01-2012, 03:09 PM

No, it definitely was the Collinses. the Lopez twins went to a public hs in Fresno; the Collins twins went to Harvard Westlake.
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Big C_Cal Big C_Cal is offline
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03-01-2012, 03:13 PM

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Originally Posted by socaltownie View Post
Empirically challenged. In 2 out of the first 3 years he brought in 2 four stars - Crabbe being graded the 16th best ranked shooting guard in the nation.
Not sure what you are arguing... are you saying that Monty's doing a good job recruiting?!?

He's doing a great job coaching and an "okay" job recruiting. "Stars" are a better measure for football than basketball. Look, it's his fourth year and we're somewhat talent-challenged and also depth-challenged. He's whiffed on lots of his top options.

Here are some other possible reasons (in addition to what you wrote in another post in this thread):

- He works hard at recruiting, but is perhaps not passionate about it, as some might be (like maybe a Sean Miller).

- He doesn't suck up to the AAU guys.

- He refuses to hire anyone remotely "Bozemanesque" as an assistant.

- Because of his occasionally gruff exterior and the fact that he stresses defense and teamwork, HS players might have the misconception that he's not a players' coach and/or that his system isn't uptempo enough.

- Because of his age, recruits probably have other schools whispering in their ears that he might retire any time now (especially since the recent health scare).

Hey, I'm a Montgomery fan, don't get me wrong. However this continues, it's been a good improvement for Cal.
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OaktownBear OaktownBear is offline
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03-01-2012, 03:31 PM

He has signed 4 classes + 1 guy (Jorge).

First class - MSF, Smith, Bak. MSF good. Overall not a good class. Of course, he started late since it was his first year, but it was his class.

Second class - Crabbe, Cobbs, Solomon, Franklin, Murray, Rossi. Does anyone have a problem with this class now?

Third class - Kravish, Behrens, Kreklow. Yes, people all thought it sucked. Anyone have a problem with Kravish? We haven't seen Kreklow yet. We'll have to see how Behrens develops.

Fourth class - Wallace and Kaileb. Wallace is a 4 star. Kaileb is....not.

Saying he is in his 4th year is unfair when it comes to judging personnel. He has 3 recruiting classes that are actually playing. As I said elsewhere, basically the problem is the junior class (and Solomon being ineligible.)
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82gradDLSdad 82gradDLSdad is offline
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Thanks for all the comments - 03-01-2012, 04:14 PM

I think Montgomery is a great coach and he seems very personable. I guess I'm showing my age by saying I don't know why kids wouldn't want to come here and play for him and get better and get a great education. I do confess to not knowing what entices the young basketball stud to come to a college. Apparently good coaching, good guy, good education is not necessarily at the top of their list. And I certainly don't want Montgomery to change how he coaches and how he interacts with his players. I enjoy watching his teams play until my anxiety gets the better of me and I have to turn off the game and go do something else.
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calumnus calumnus is online now
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03-01-2012, 04:23 PM

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Originally Posted by UrsaMajor View Post
No, it definitely was the Collinses. the Lopez twins went to a public hs in Fresno; the Collins twins went to Harvard Westlake.
But the Lopez twins' mom swam for Stanford and used to take them to Stanford camps and told them when they were young that Stanford was the only school they would go to. LINK

There are a lot of schools the Collins Twins could have played basketball for that have a higher academic profile than Arizona (Duke?), but yeah, they visited Arizona, UCLA and Stanford, mom was against Arizona and Harrick's potential trouble with the Chevy Blazer he sold to Baron Davis' sister (and Baron drove) in the middle of their recruitment pretty much sent them to Stanford.
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calumnus calumnus is online now
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03-01-2012, 04:28 PM

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Originally Posted by 82gradDLSdad View Post
I think Montgomery is a great coach and he seems very personable. I guess I'm showing my age by saying I don't know why kids wouldn't want to come here and play for him and get better and get a great education. I do confess to not knowing what entices the young basketball stud to come to a college. Apparently good coaching, good guy, good education is not necessarily at the top of their list. And I certainly don't want Montgomery to change how he coaches and how he interacts with his players. I enjoy watching his teams play until my anxiety gets the better of me and I have to turn off the game and go do something else.
Jamal Sampson had to ask Braun to recruit him.

Maybe Monty is setting his sights low or is not giving top recruits the "love" they are getting from other coaches (can't you see that as likely with Monty? He watches a kid play and every other coach is telling him how great he is and maybe Monty tells him what he needs to work on?).
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wifeisafurd wifeisafurd is offline
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Maybe Monty doesn't toss money to AAU coaches - 03-01-2012, 04:33 PM

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Originally Posted by FingeroftheBear View Post
Wilner at the Merc made a great observation, UCLA's great recruiting classes were the doing of Kerry Keating, then an assistant coach at UCLA and head of recruiting. Of course things haven't transferred over so well at SCU but he still might get it rolling.

Also, seriously how do you recruit against UCLA with all those NCAA banners, tradition, support and now a renovated Pauley.

Yes Monty is glib, likeable and a good guy but he's also probably frank and honest with kids coming in, i.e., no baloney on starting as a frosh, etc. So far Monty has gotten very good recruits (Jorge, Crabbe, Cobbs), he just hasn't landed the gifted big man.
not that NCAA would ever look at UCLA
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  (#41) Old
wifeisafurd wifeisafurd is offline
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Lopez twins mom was Furd alum and avid fan - 03-01-2012, 04:39 PM

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Originally Posted by Civil Bear View Post
Oops, I meant to type Harrick, not Howland. Doh!

Also, I think it was the Lopez twins with the mother that directed her sons to Stanfurd.
And dad wasn't around. Assuming they got past admissions, they were only going to Furd
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  (#42) Old
socaltownie socaltownie is offline
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03-01-2012, 04:45 PM

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Originally Posted by OaktownBear View Post
He has signed 4 classes + 1 guy (Jorge).

First class - MSF, Smith, Bak. MSF good. Overall not a good class. Of course, he started late since it was his first year, but it was his class.

Second class - Crabbe, Cobbs, Solomon, Franklin, Murray, Rossi. Does anyone have a problem with this class now?

Third class - Kravish, Behrens, Kreklow. Yes, people all thought it sucked. Anyone have a problem with Kravish? We haven't seen Kreklow yet. We'll have to see how Behrens develops.

Fourth class - Wallace and Kaileb. Wallace is a 4 star. Kaileb is....not.

Saying he is in his 4th year is unfair when it comes to judging personnel. He has 3 recruiting classes that are actually playing. As I said elsewhere, basically the problem is the junior class (and Solomon being ineligible.)
And I am not convinced the 4th class is done. If we land Zena I think you put that class up with the Crabbe one and I think you give him a pass on class 1 cause it is almost impossible to start that late and do well UNLESS you are coming from another school and have a bunch of guys you are working with in that class already. Though maybe he should have brough Marcus Johnson back and petitioned for another year ;-)
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  (#43) Old
GBMARIN GBMARIN is offline
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03-01-2012, 04:58 PM

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Originally Posted by BearsLair72 View Post
...who was there in the salad days of Monty and he would say that the real knock on Monty is that he is NOT a good tournament coach and given some of his talent and the times he got pretty far and never won it, one might question that view also.
Consider the source. Monty never, in my view had slam dunk National Championship talent at Stanford, but was one hell off a coach.
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socaltownie socaltownie is offline
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03-01-2012, 05:11 PM

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Originally Posted by GBMARIN View Post
Consider the source. Monty never, in my view had slam dunk National Championship talent at Stanford, but was one hell off a coach.
Monty's tournament teams struggled against the same kinds of teams the current Bears do (which leads me to believe it is the system more than anything) - teams with athletic and long wings that could get the Furd into games where superior athleticism won out over execution, scouting and preparation. Look how many times the Furd lost the SECOND game of a weekend rather than the first and the teams that beat them.
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south bender south bender is offline
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How about a Post on This? - 03-01-2012, 06:17 PM

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Originally Posted by socaltownie View Post
Monty's tournament teams struggled against the same kinds of teams the current Bears do (which leads me to believe it is the system more than anything) - teams with athletic and long wings that could get the Furd into games where superior athleticism won out over execution, scouting and preparation. Look how many times the Furd lost the SECOND game of a weekend rather than the first and the teams that beat them.
Socaltownie, for us with less photographic memories, can you detail the tournament record of Monty at Stanford that supports your conclusion? It would be interesting to see it.
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