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GoBearsBert GoBearsBert is offline
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OT: Standard and Poor downgrades 9 European countries - 01-14-2012, 09:06 AM

With apologies to anyone that works for S&P...

Does this bother anyone else?

How badly will this downgrade endanger Europe's attempts to stabilize the Euro? And keep some of the economies from collapsing?

My take is: It sure as hell doesn't help.

All of this would be fine if the agency was a legitimate agency that was providing an informed, objective opinion. But given the fact that they were giving AAA ratings to toxic assets 4 years ago, either through incompetence or greed (most likely both), they have no credibility IMO.

These people were very much responsible for the meltdown....and should pay the price.

Anyhow, my humble opinion. Anyone else?
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GBMARIN GBMARIN is offline
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01-14-2012, 09:10 AM

Sounds like you want to believe those socialist Euro countries are on
sound financial ground. Nothing to see here, just move on.
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GoBearsBert GoBearsBert is offline
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01-14-2012, 09:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GBMARIN View Post
Sounds like you want to believe those socialist Euro countries are on
sound financial ground. Nothing to see here, just move on.
What happens there affects our markets and our economy. And they downgraded US also.

Sorry...but it bugs me.
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petalumabear petalumabear is online now
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01-14-2012, 09:31 AM

So Bčrt, if I understand your beef w/S&P you think they should ignore the fact that the Eurozone is in deep financial stress and the various countries ability to repay their debts could be impacted should be ignored because it hurts our markets?

I suppose you feel the same way about the downgrade of our debt back in August? Please remind me what the rating agencies do again as I've clearly forgotten.
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FingeroftheBear FingeroftheBear is offline
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01-14-2012, 09:34 AM

S&P is a financial industry rating system for the financial industry, if it affects people and countries, well too damn bad. Yes a rating system is needed but a neutral one would be better.
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tommie317 tommie317 is offline
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01-14-2012, 09:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FingeroftheBear View Post
S&P is a financial industry rating system for the financial industry, if it affects people and countries, well too damn bad. Yes a rating system is needed but a neutral one would be better.
They were awesome in rating those mortgages. I'm glad they are an institution we can all count on.
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Bearclawz Bearclawz is offline
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01-14-2012, 10:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GBMARIN View Post
Sounds like you want to believe those socialist Euro countries are on
sound financial ground. Nothing to see here, just move on.
Not quite sure, do live in a cave or a vacuum? Almost any idiot knows that this country's economy and financial markets are greatly tied to what happens in "those socialist Euro countries". My 15 year old even realizes it.

If the EU can't pull themselves out of this, we could be looking at a world wide economic recession that will make this last drop look like a joy ride. And if you think that won't effect your life in Marin, well.......
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GoBearsBert GoBearsBert is offline
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01-14-2012, 10:47 AM

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Originally Posted by tommie317 View Post
They were awesome in rating those mortgages. I'm glad they are an institution we can all count on.
EXACTLY. That's my point. Anyone trusting their AAA ratings back in 2006 got hosed...why should we listen to them now? Lot's of material on how they were a big part of the international financial crisis.

My take is they should be heavily discounted as a rating agency. If not ignored completely.

But hey - this gets them some press. Maybe that was the idea?
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Bearclawz Bearclawz is offline
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01-14-2012, 11:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBearsBert View Post
EXACTLY. That's my point. Anyone trusting their AAA ratings back in 2006 got hosed...why should we listen to them now? Lot's of material on how they were a big part of the international financial crisis.

My take is they should be heavily discounted as a rating agency. If not ignored completely.

But hey - this gets them some press. Maybe that was the idea?
No, this downgrade is way overdue, just like with the mortgage fiasco.
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dajo9 dajo9 is offline
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01-14-2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GBMARIN View Post
Sounds like you want to believe those socialist Euro countries are on
sound financial ground. Nothing to see here, just move on.
I believe all these countries are members of the Euro currency. It is the currency they have (and have no control over) that is killing them, not their fiscal policies (with a few exceptions like Greece).
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burritos burritos is offline
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01-14-2012, 12:29 PM

Who gets to rate S&P? Whatever, I look forward to locking in a sub 4% 30 year refinance in the near future, though no rush necessary.
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wifeisafurd wifeisafurd is offline
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So they should bow to political pressure instead? - 01-14-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBearsBert View Post
What happens there affects our markets and our economy. And they downgraded US also.

Sorry...but it bugs me.
The failure to not downgrade subprime and related derivative instruments due to pressure from Wall Street caused a collpase in the banking system and worldwide recession. You want the rating agencies to again ignore bad loan and credit? There is a failure of the Euro countries to stablize their currency and to provide sufficient capitial in lending banks (which, unlike in the US, the governments in the Euro zone typically control). And the rating agencies should just stiick their heads in the sand, and set us up for another collapse?

As for the US, the President that so bitterly complained about the first downgrade (and opposed to when the other rating agencies followed suit) is now blaming Congress for the downgrade and using the downgrades to his political advantage. Does that bug you?

From my limited perspective, its better to debate about what to do regarding countries that take on more debt than they can handle, than to ignore problems, and bash rating agencies whose job it is to disclose these problems to bond holders. Regardless of your political perspective (I appreciate that people on the right or the left have very different answers to what to do), you should want these problems highlighted and addressed.
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tommie317 tommie317 is offline
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01-14-2012, 12:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wifeisafurd View Post
The failure to not downgrade subprime and related derivative instruments due to pressure from Wall Street caused a collpase in the banking system and worldwide recession. You want the rating agencies to again ignore bad loan and credit? There is a failure of the Euro countries to stablize their currency and to provide sufficient capitial in lending banks (which, unlike in the US, the governments in the Euro zone typically control). And the rating agencies should just stiick their heads in the sand, and set us up for another collapse?

As for the US, the President that so bitterly complained about the first downgrade (and opposed to when the other rating agencies followed suit) is now blaming Congress for the downgrade and using the downgrades to his political advantage. Does that bug you?

From my limited perspective, its better to debate about what to do regarding countries that take on more debt than they can handle, than to ignore problems, and bash rating agencies whose job it is to disclose these problems to bond holders. Regardless of your political perspective (I appreciate that people on the right or the left have very different answers to what to do), you should want these problems highlighted and addressed.
Since the downgrade was due to inaction by congress, why cant the prez use it against them? Makes sense
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biely medved biely medved is offline
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01-14-2012, 01:20 PM

So ask yourself this: why did they fail to downgrade the corporations? And, would these governments be in the same trouble now had the raters done their job before?


QUOTE=wifeisafurd;676995]The failure to not downgrade subprime and related derivative instruments due to pressure from Wall Street caused a collpase in the banking system and worldwide recession. You want the rating agencies to again ignore bad loan and credit? There is a failure of the Euro countries to stablize their currency and to provide sufficient capitial in lending banks (which, unlike in the US, the governments in the Euro zone typically control). And the rating agencies should just stiick their heads in the sand, and set us up for another collapse?

As for the US, the President that so bitterly complained about the first downgrade (and opposed to when the other rating agencies followed suit) is now blaming Congress for the downgrade and using the downgrades to his political advantage. Does that bug you?

From my limited perspective, its better to debate about what to do regarding countries that take on more debt than they can handle, than to ignore problems, and bash rating agencies whose job it is to disclose these problems to bond holders. Regardless of your political perspective (I appreciate that people on the right or the left have very different answers to what to do), you should want these problems highlighted and addressed.[/quote]
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drunkoski drunkoski is offline
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01-14-2012, 02:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dajo9 View Post
I believe all these countries are members of the Euro currency. It is the currency they have (and have no control over) that is killing them, not their fiscal policies (with a few exceptions like Greece).

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Then why are the interest rates for italy and Spain far higher than the more fiscally responsible eu nations?

Last edited by drunkoski; 01-14-2012 at 02:24 PM.
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