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  (#91) Old
bluesaxe bluesaxe is offline
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11-18-2011, 01:18 PM

Well, I think Smith has done a better job of running the offense thus far than Cobbs has. For that matter, I think he has taken care of the ball better under pressure. But that's just based on observation of a couple of games (which is all anyone has). It is not based on anything Monty says or does. For that matter, I don't think the difference in performance is very big. Nor do I think who starts a game is indicative of Monty thinking that person a better players, for reasons I've already stated.

If you disagree, fine. If you see something different, okay. Of course you're not obligated to accept anyone else's take on things. They/I aren't obligated to accept yours either. But lumping everyone who disagrees with you into a group of coach worshipers is just one of those dumb internet argument techniques that adds nothing to the discussion. It pretty much detracts from the valid points you've been making imo.
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  (#92) Old
GBMARIN GBMARIN is offline
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11-18-2011, 01:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CubanPete View Post
I'm going to assume you meant Powers here.



Well, I'd rather not play such an offensively anemic group together at all. If we have such foul or injury trouble that we have to play three guys outside of the top 7 together, we're probably either in real deep trouble or we're not worried at all about losing.

However, in the event that I was forced to play such a lineup (just as Monty was forced to play Powers when Crabbe was hurt and we didn't do well), I would play the best available player I could with that group and the best player is Cobbs.
At this point, I believe we have enough offense with Smith in the lineup plus the other starters. Maybe Monty saw enough anemic offensive lineups last year that he still wants the comfort zone of going with a lineup where Cobbs is the main scorer.
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  (#93) Old
CubanPete CubanPete is offline
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11-18-2011, 03:53 PM

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Originally Posted by DaBears24 View Post
I don't understand why you take such an aggresive tone towards SB and other posters just b/c they don't agree with you
Depends on the person.

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...would you do the same to Monty?
Of course not, but then he would bring a lot more to the discussion than the reasoning people have been using here. I think it's safe to say Monty can defend his decisions with something better than "I did it and I know best" if he wanted to.

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I mean he's the idiot who clearly wants to lose games....I mean why else can't he see that Cobbs is WAY better than Smith?
Do you really want to be the next in line? I've already more than made my case, so I suggest you dispense with the straw men and the cute little jabs.

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Keep in mind that it was Smith who came in last year and did the #1 job of a PG....led our team to a very good season.
Really? He did the #1 job last year? I had no idea!

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Keep in mind that I have seen Cobbs play in practice and as far back as early in the season last year said that he'd start over Smith based on what I saw
You are the goldenjax of basketball, no doubt.

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....HOWEVER, I didn't see Smith playing as well as he did to finish out the year.....my thoughts are simply that you and serveral others look at the Smith/Cobbs "debate" much the same way as the budding Kravish/Solomon debate.....Cobbs and Solomon jump higher so they are better basketball players.
Well you could put words into my mouth. Or you could re-use the "leaping ability" line that you used in the Rossi thread (perhaps as basketball players have go-to moves, that is your internet "go-to move"?). Or perhaps you would just do not to assume what my stance is on Solomon and Kravish based on my opinion of where Cobbs and Smith stand relative to each other.

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Kravish, like Smith last year, is proving that understanding how to play basketball is AT LEAST as important as being a great athlete.
Well yeah. But you also have to make a reasonable percentage of the open shots that you take. That's where Kravish is making up ground on the more athletic and experienced Solomon, especially since he's shown that he can also block shots and rebound at a roughly similar level vs. the quality of competition they've played so far.

In Smith's case, the best thing he could do for his game is to improve his 3 point shot and his free throw shooting. He shot a good percentage on 3's, but he didn't shoot that many and he's only attempted 1 so far this year. It's a lot easier to be a game manager type of PG if you can stand at the 3 point line and help spread the floor so that your man can't cheat towards the key.

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I'm still not sure which one should be starting at PG but since Monty see's fit to start Smith than I'd say he's probably got good reason to do so and I trust that...especially since we haven't lost yet.
We haven't exactly been tested yet. We should get a pretty good test over the next two games.

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My overall point is this...Monty is starting Smith over Cobbs, so the arguement you seem to be making (that CLEARLY we'd be better with Cobbs starting and playing more) is wrong....at least for now. Unless of course you think you'd be better as the head coach than Monty?

There I go defending the status quo....which seems to be...winning games and over-acheiving....in which case, I like the status quo.
I don't need to be a better coach than Monty to put forth the position that Cobbs is better than Smith. Functioning eyes and a basic understanding of basketball would suffice for most folks, but some people seem insistent on taking on the obvious for whatever reason. That Smith has ended up being more valuable than he looked like he might be doesn't make him as good as Cobbs.

Perhaps a couple of games against Georgia and Missouri or Notre Dame would be worth seeing before we start deciding that 3-0 in the early season means a whole heck of a lot. After all, those teams are all 3-0 as well! It's two unstoppable forces meeting an immoveable object!
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  (#94) Old
DaBears24 DaBears24 is offline
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11-18-2011, 05:27 PM

Ok first off - did ou research my previous posts? Either way, I have no idea what I said in the Rossi thread...I'll take your word that I said something similar to what you claim....I'm still not sure why it matters that I said something before on a different topic.
Second, regarding the last chapter of your book like post - you're making my point, to this point in the season Monty has chosen to start Smith over Cobbs - part of this is a trust issue with regard to running the team, something Smith has proven very good at. maybe that changes as I first thought it might back at this time last year. So just seeing with your "functioning eyes" and having a "basic understanding of basketball" (debatable in your case) that Cobbs is "better than Smith" leaves me no other choice than to think you think you know more than Monty and other on here...i'll only speak for me on this but you don't know more than Monty about hoops and I can't fathom you know more than I do about it.

Its like this, seeing someone who's perhaps talented doesn't mean they're a better fit for the team than someone less talented. In fact, while they might have more talent, they could in fact make the team worse....see Gary franklin.?...clearly more raw talent than Smith but also clearly worse for the team.
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  (#95) Old
GBMARIN GBMARIN is offline
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11-18-2011, 06:20 PM

Pete insists Cobbs is a better basketball player than Smith. It is hard to argue with that. However, why wouldn't you like have a high scoring sub a la Jason Terry or Manu G. to come in leading the second wave, and keep the scoring pressure on?
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  (#96) Old
CubanPete CubanPete is offline
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11-18-2011, 08:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBears24 View Post
So just seeing with your "functioning eyes" and having a "basic understanding of basketball" (debatable in your case) that Cobbs is "better than Smith" leaves me no other choice than to think you think you know more than Monty and other on here
Well, I can think of a group of people that I know more than.

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...i'll only speak for me on this but you don't know more than Monty about hoops
Terrific job at only speaking for yourself here

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and I can't fathom you know more than I do about it.
Well, you've certainly convinced me of your extensive knowledge with all the supporting evidence you've provided.

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Its like this, seeing someone who's perhaps talented doesn't mean they're a better fit for the team than someone less talented. In fact, while they might have more talent, they could in fact make the team worse....see Gary franklin.?
I'm still not clear on what Gary Franklin's talent was supposed to be. He couldn't go left at all, wasn't anything special going to his right, wasn't that athletic, he didn't see the floor well, and he was terrible at thinking the game. His rep was that he was a very good shooter, but he sure didn't show it while he was here.

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clearly more raw talent than Smith but also clearly worse for the team.
I don't think that it was clear that he had more raw talent than Smith. I think he was overrated purely because of where he went to school, as so many people from his school before him have been. Three of them are currently helping drag UCLA down.
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  (#97) Old
CubanPete CubanPete is offline
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11-18-2011, 09:02 PM

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Originally Posted by GBMARIN View Post
Pete insists Cobbs is a better basketball player than Smith. It is hard to argue with that. However, why wouldn't you like have a high scoring sub a la Jason Terry or Manu G. to come in leading the second wave, and keep the scoring pressure on?
This is another comparison that doesn't make sense that is being shoehorned to try and accommodate a preconceived notion. Cobbs is scoring 9 points a game, which is 4th on the team, and is 5th on the team in minutes per game. His shot attempts and free throw attempts are basically almost mirror images of Smith's in about 13 fewer minutes for the season, yet no one would consider Smith a scorer. The only guy on the team who really takes a disproportionate number of shots on the team is Crabbe, who has 3 times as many FG attempts as Cobbs in about 30% more minute for the season. Jorge shoots a little more than the 5 other guys not named Crabbe that are in the top 7. Other than that, the other five guys have roughly similar shot attempts (including Smith), yet Cobbs is supposed to some ideal sixth man scoring option off the bench. I would say he's more of a setup man than a scorer and that he isn't a thing like Terry or Ginobili, who are both top 2 on their teams in FGA's even coming off the bench.
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  (#98) Old
south bender south bender is offline
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Franklin and Smith - 11-18-2011, 09:58 PM

CP, as much as you love to argue and insult others, will it disappoint you for me to agree with your relative assessments of Franklin and Smith?

As for all this detailed analysis of minutes, combos on the floor, shots per minute, etc., does it really make a lot of sense at this point in the season? Particularly given the weakness of the opposition in these first 3 games?

If you have been paying attention to what Monty has been saying, presently--or at least the last he spoke of it--he feels better about Smith's defense than Cobbs', in that he has suggested Cobbs' need to improve his getting through screens. To my knowledge, he has offered no similar critique of Smith. Also, he has expressed his pleasure with what Cobbs brings to the game by coming off the bench.

None of this means that he has set in stone his notions about who should start, how many minutes anyone should play. Like any good coach, he probably is looking forward to seeing how all members of the team perform against the better competition they will face in the next two games.

I don't think that there is anyone writing on this site who does not like Cobbs.
And despite your seeing me as having a man-crush on Smith (I did enjoy the humor of it, despite the fact it would have been much more accurate if you had pointed out my man-crush on Jorge, my favorite Cal player since Jason), should Cobbs prove to be worthy of displacing Smith in the lineup and of playing more minutes, I probably could handle it. Indeed, other than a concern for any disappointment that Smith might feel, I would love it, as it would mean a stronger team.

It would be good if you could make your case for Cobbs without insulting others and putting on what I hope is an act of your belief in your own superiority. If you really believe that you are so much smarter than everyone who has different opinions from yours, I feel sorry for you.

Lastly, Monty is comfortable with his ability as a coach, as well he should be. Given his candor, we will probably hear from him why he chooses to go with a certain player or combination of players in various circumstances. However, I doubt that he will feel the need to defend his coaching and rotation to anybody, let alone any and all of us who write on this site.
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  (#99) Old
DaBears24 DaBears24 is offline
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11-19-2011, 09:10 AM

I feel no need to "convince" you of my "extensive knowledge" of hoops. You've yet to convince me and others on here that you can make a point without insulting others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CubanPete View Post
Well, I can think of a group of people that I know more than.



Terrific job at only speaking for yourself here



Well, you've certainly convinced me of your extensive knowledge with all the supporting evidence you've provided.



I'm still not clear on what Gary Franklin's talent was supposed to be. He couldn't go left at all, wasn't anything special going to his right, wasn't that athletic, he didn't see the floor well, and he was terrible at thinking the game. His rep was that he was a very good shooter, but he sure didn't show it while he was here.



I don't think that it was clear that he had more raw talent than Smith. I think he was overrated purely because of where he went to school, as so many people from his school before him have been. Three of them are currently helping drag UCLA down.

Last edited by DaBears24; 11-19-2011 at 09:18 AM.
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  (#100) Old
DaBears24 DaBears24 is offline
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Define better - 11-19-2011, 09:17 AM

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Originally Posted by GBMARIN View Post
Pete insists Cobbs is a better basketball player than Smith. It is hard to argue with that. However, why wouldn't you like have a high scoring sub a la Jason Terry or Manu G. to come in leading the second wave, and keep the scoring pressure on?
Look I don't care who starts and I completely trust whatever Monty decides to do with JC and BS. I did stthat's year ago that I thought Cobbs would start this season based on what I saw in several practices last year. What I admit to is 1.) I don't know what Coach knows with regard to who's playing better day to day in practice and 2.) who's better running the team.

I think it's clear that Cobbs would win a 1on1 game against Smith but that doesn't mean he's better for the team.
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  (#101) Old
Oakbear Oakbear is offline
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Maybe he will will our next Jorge?? - 11-20-2011, 11:17 AM

someone we didn't know too much about, but who developed into a player that we all like

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Originally Posted by GBMARIN View Post
Smooth around the basket. Nice jumper and bank shots.
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